Endtimes Conference Proves Post-Trib Rapture

2007-06-08T14:50:00.000-07:00

The Bible verses used to prove the "Pre-Trib" Rapture,
instead prove the "Post-Trib" Rapture at...

...this men's conference held at Country Church in Redding,
California, on March 3, and attended by over 800 men. Common
sense should tell us there can't be two Second Comings; there was
a first advent (He went to the cross), and there will be a second,
when He returns in glory, after the tribulation (Mark 13:24-26).

Note:
Justin Martyr (98-167) makes both of the above points in a two
paragraph quote from his book: (Dialogue with Trypho, chp.110)
(He was the most important of the Greek philosophers in the early
church, and founded a Christian school in Rome. And he was put
to death by beheading, along with six of his students. In the above
brief link he makes it very clear that there are only two advents of
Christ, and that Christians will be on the earth to face the wrath of
the Antichrist in the last 3 1/2 years of this age).

The three senior pastors that spoke at this "Endtime Conference"

used nine scriptures to prove the "pre-trib" rapture. However,
out of the nine they used, seven were taken out of context, and
the other two were based on assumptions._ Below are the nine
scriptures they thought were the best to support their view:

All verses quoted are KJV, for an instant reference in the
English Standard Version, place cursor on chapter/verse.

#1. I Corinthians 15:51-52

51"Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Read verse 52 in the above very slowly, think about the order
(sequence) God inspired Paul to list these three events:

1 __The Last Trump (i.e., the 7th).

2 __The Resurrection of the dead (in Christ).

3 __The Rapture of the living ("we shall be changed").

Paul would have listed the Rapture first, instead of third, if this

was to be a pre-tribulation Rapture. Also Jesus states three times

in John 6:39, 40, and 44, that the resurrection is on the Last day
(see also John 11:24). So, if the Resurrection is on the Last Day,
as stated by Jesus, and in I Cor.15:52, Paul lists the Rapture
after the Resurrection. Paul has told us the "sequence" of
these (3) events and Jesus told us "when" (on the Last Day)....

....Is this such a difficult concept to comprehend? Clearly, these
two verses teach a Post-Tribulation Rapture, at the Second
Coming of Christ. How can the__Last Trumpet sound__then
the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, and the rapture happen
seven years__before__the Last Day?

#2. I Thessalonians 4:16

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,

with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

Again the word "trump" is used, but the Thessalonian's were
unclear as to "when" this would happen. Paul apparently heard
that they were troubled about this, so he then wrote a_second
letter_to clear this up, and this reads as follows:

II Thessalonians 2:1-4, "Now we beseech you, brothren, by
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering
together (i.e. rapture) unto him,       2 That ye be not soon
shaken in mind,_or be troubled,_neither by spirit,_or by word,
nor by letter from us, _as that the _day of Christ_ is at hand.
3 Let no man_deceive you_by any means:   for__ that day
shall not come_except there come a falling away first, and
that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" ( false christ).

"Falling away," is #646 "APOSTASIA" in the Strong's (Greek)
Concordance, and translates:"Defection from the truth, apostasy."

In this, second letter, Paul, this time_ makes it _very clear
that the false Christ_ comes first,__and (v-3) not to let anyone
deceive you. Then, referring back to the first letter he wrote, then
(after the false Christ) the Lord descends, with a shout, with the
voice of the arch angel, with the"trump" of God: and the dead in
Christ shall rise first. This is the second coming of Christ, after
the tribulation_ So, with this_second letter_Paul is making
it clear that this "trump"_is not before the tribulation_it's
after...It's a post-tribulation rapture, on the Last Day!

#3. Revelation 3:10

"Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the hour of temptation, that shall come upon
all the world to try them that dwell upon the earth."

"Notice that Jesus says, "....I will keep thee from...." He does
not say, "...take thee out of..." So, for a better understanding
of Rev. 3:10, Let's prove the Bible, with the Bible, and not assume
anything._ Let's let Jesus clarify this verse, which He does in
John 17:15, "I pray not that thou take them out of the world,
but that thou should keep them from the evil."

Jesus clearly says___not to take them out__in John 17:15.
So, how can the__I will keep thee from__in Rev.3:10__mean
"I will take thee out of ?"    As pre-trib teachers would have
you to believe. Jesus does "not" contradict Himself !!  For
the Greek interpretation of "Keep thee from"--see note #2-->

God's wrath does not fall on us,"only those who had the mark
of the beast" (Rev 16:2). And those who "do not have the seal
of God" (Rev 9:4). Like the "144 thousand" of Rev. 7:3, we have
the seal of God._ See Eph.1:13 "...after you believed, you were
sealed......" And Eph.4:30 "......you are sealed unto the day of
redemption." There are several verses that clearly state, after we
accept Christ, we are sealed, (protected from God's wrath).

#4. Matthew 24:27

"For as the lighting cometh out of the east, and shineth even
unto the west; so shall also the coming of the son of man be."
Go down two verses, Matt.24:29 tells you "when" this will be:
"Immediately__ after the tribulation__ of those days..." Now
Matt.24:30 "...then shall appear the sign of the son of man..."
Now Matt.24:31, "...with the great sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together (rapture) his elect......"    Again the
same trumpet as in other verses, now back to Matt.24:26, Jesus
tells them not to believe people that tell you that He (Jesus) is
in a secret place (like a secret pre-trib rapture).   Matt.24:27
is another verse that was clearly taken out of context, It teaches
a post tribulation rapture, at the second coming of Christ.

#5. Matthew 25:1-13

The parable of the "ten virgins"____ Here Jesus does not
talk about the "time" of His return, because He had just told
them a few minutes before about the time, (see the paragraph
before this one_Matt.24:29_definitely after the tribulation).
The Wedding Feast can only take place after the tribulation,
because the Resurrection doesn't happen until the Last day
Jesus said four times that the Resurrection is on the Last
Day (John 6:39, 40, 44, 54). _ Then the bridegroom (Jesus)
goes into the wedding feast after the second coming of Christ,
and guess who else is at this Wedding Feast?       1   The Old
Testament saints.    2  The tribulation saints.    3  The prophets.
4  The 144 thousand new Christians. There would have to be
two wedding feasts__two resurrections__two second comings,
and two Last Days, for the "pre-trib" to work... Note #3-->

#6. Mark 13:6-37

In this entire chapter Jesus is talking about the events that
happen during the tribulation, and that they were   not to
look for Him until   after   certain events happen, then in
Mark 13:24-27, "...after the tribulation of those days,
then they shall see Him.." So Jesus again told them He's
coming back after the tribulation, making this a post
tribulation rapture at the Second Coming of Christ.

#7. Luke 21:6-38

Basically this chapter is the same as the above chapter, where
Jesus returns_after_the tribulation, at the second coming of
Christ, except in v-36, He says, "....pray that you be accounted
worthy to escape all these things..." What things? All 21 plagues
that God uses to punish evil men; "...men which had the mark of
the beast.."(Rev.16:2), and "..those men which have not the seal
of God..." (Rev.9:4). What makes us worthy to escape all these
things? Accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour, and
being an over comer, which includes_not_taking_the mark of the
beast. So, we will escape all these things, because we have the
seal of God (Eph.1:13, Eph.4:30, II Cor 1:22, and John 6:27).
We are protected from God's wrath, like the 144000 (Rev.7:4).
Greek rendering of "escape" put in the proper context..Note 4->

#8. II Peter 3:10

"...The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night."

Now let's let the Bible prove the Bible and go to I Thes. 5:2, where
the exact same words are used, "..the Day of the Lord so cometh
as a thief in the night." Then in I Thes.5:4, (paraphrased) "But
[we] are not in darkness that this day should overtake [us] as
a thief." Why? Because I Thes.5:5, "...[we] are children of the
light." So, we will know!   (I inserted "we" for "you" because
Peter and Paul's letters were to the Gentiles (non Jews_"us").

#9. Revelation 22:12

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me..."

"So, when does He give out rewards? See Rev.11:15,18 "And
the 7th angel sounded..[its time]..that thou give rewards...
unto the saints..."_It's after the 7th trump!!__At the end!
Rewards are given out after the post-trib resurrection/
rapture, after the Second Coming of Christ.

Now, the nine verse references listed above_were all that was
presented to prove the "Pre-Trib" rapture by the three pastors at
this conference. You can see that they were all taken out of
context, or based on assumptions. God was very angry with
the 10 spies, who made Israel fear the Giants that were in the
land that God promised to them (Num.13:1-2), and____"They
were afraid to go in (Num.13:31-33). We are doing the
same thing today, by fearing the "Giant" (Antichrist) _we add
"pre-trib" to God's word, without a single verse to prove it,
this is very dangerous, (see Rev. 22:18). It is not my intent to
belittle these three pastors, I'm sure they are sincere Christians,
but if they can't come up with one single verse that specifically
places this event before the tribulation, who can? See Note 5-->

It's really very simple, if it's not in God's word, it's not going to
happen. Again, I want to repeat that these nine scriptures were
all that was used to prove the "pre-trib" rapture that day, I was
there! The senior pastor of this large church has read this article,
and we exchanged a few Emails, and he did not question that
these were the scriptures that were used. And, yes, he is still my
Christian brother.

Some may ask: "what difference does it make if Christ returns
before the tribulation, or after?"_ There are sincere Christians on
both sides. However, the Bible says in I Thes.5:21, to "prove all
things."_And in II Tim.4:4,"And they shall turn away their ears
from the truth, and shall be turned into fables" (fiction). We see
this in the "Left Behind"  book and movie, with cars and planes
crashing, etc. Millions are killed before the tribulation even starts,
when all these people still have/had a chance to be saved during
this time. The reality is the truth was Left Behind in the making
of this movie! Yet it sells well in the religious marketplaces. The
Pre Tribulation Rapture doctrine has become amusement for the
masses, a multi billion dollar business.

Note: The "pre-trib" view is a relatively new doctrine, you won't
find pre-trib writings or documents in any church history until
about the year 1830. Edward Irving, (Catholic Apostolic Church)
and soon after, John Darby, (Plymouth Brethren) both of England,
were teaching the pre-tribulation rapture. _However, the most
important reason for the acceptance of this "pre-trib" rapture
view in the United States was the Scofield Reference Bible as well
as the Dake Study Bible. In the footnotes Scofield split the second
coming of Christ into two events:

1  Coming "for" the saints,  2  Coming "with" the saints (seven
years later). Below is a quote from a well known Christian author
who lived at the time this false theory was being introduced:

Robert Cameron (1845-1922):
"The Coming for, and the Coming with, the Saints, still

persists, although it involves a manifest contradiction,
two Second Comings which is an absurdity."
(Scriptural Truth About the Lord's Return, p.639).

If such a major event as the "pre-trib" rapture is true, why
isn't it found in Old Testament prophecy?__or in Jesus'
own teaching?__or His disciples?__or any of the New
Testament writers?__Jesus said in Mark 13:23, "I have
foretold you all things." He would have told us!

Others may say: That, "the tribulation is only for the 144,000"
And then they go on to say that these are the people that God
uses in this time to bring people to Christ. This may be true, in
part, but look at Rev. 7:1,2,3,4 where God puts a seal on this
small group. And because of this seal, they are protected!!
The woman (Israel/144,000) is protected in the last 3 1/2 years
of the tribulation (Rev. 12:13-14). This, in turn, makes the serpent
(Satan) angry, so he goes after us in Rev.12:17, those who have
"the testimony of Jesus Christ." _Again, go back to Rev. 7:9,
"After this (sealing of the 144000) I beheld, and look, a great
multitude... of all nations...." Now skip to Rev.7:13, who are
these people, and where did they come from?__ Rev.7:14,
"these are they that came out of great tribulation......" And
God just stated in Rev 12:13-14, that the woman (Israel/144000)
are protected. So, who do you think this great multitude is, that
has the testimony of Jesus Christ, if it's not us??__These are
martyred believers during the great tribulation (Rev.20:4).

So, there are untold millions, along with the 144,000 Israelites
that are in this period of time. To say this time is only for them to
deal with is a "cop out" and just another assumption and not
valid. They base this on Isaiah 45:4 where Israel is called God's
"elect" (KJV), so then in Matt. 24:31, when Jesus sends his angels
to gather His "elect" after the tribulation, that this event (the
second Coming of Christ) is only for the 144,000 who have to go
through the tribulation._After we (non Jews/Israelites) accept
Jesus Christ as our Savior, we become God's elect. I'll back up
this statement with Paul's letters to non Israelites: the Galatians
and the Colossians:

1   Gal.3:28-29 (paraphrased)"There is neither Jew or Greek,
you are all one in Christ...you also are Abraham's seed..."

2   Col 3:11-12, "...there is neither Greek or Jew...but Christ
is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the __Elect of God...."

3   I Peter 1:1-2, Peter writes a letter to different nationalities
and calls them the _"elect of God"_ because they have been
"washed in the blood of the Lamb"__ like we have been.
So, Israel_"and"_the church_"are"_God's elect!!

Jesus has one bride! He created the miracle of uniting Jew
and Gentile alike into one bride. Let's just "reason together",
does it make any sense that Jesus would rapture out a partial
bride? What parts would He take first? And then...what? pick
up the other parts later - with whatever the results the 144,000
are able to accomplish during the last 3 1/2 years? Why would
Jesus remove only some?

And... if He was going to do this, don't you think He would have
told us? At least one verse stating that He was going to take some
out first? Jesus said in Mark 13:23, "I have foretold you all
things." He would have told us!!

And do you suppose Jesus would have the wedding feast with His
"raptured" church (bride),without the tribulation saints, the
Old Testament saints, the prophets or the 144,000? Let's
think about this, are we really this special?_ Compared to
these four other groups?

Furthermore, Dan.11:33 says "And they that understand among
the people shall instruct many...." How are these new converts
going to 'instruct many' if they don't understand themselves? This
takes years of study, and how many Jews or Israelites in the world
today are studying end time prophecy?

I am going to add a few scriptures, (that were not mentioned
at this conference) that are also used to support the pre-trib
rapture, so that you will have a complete list of all the verses,
assumptions and analogies this "new" doctrine was based on:

1   Matt. 24:40, "....One shall be taken, and the other left."
Notice that Jesus made this statement just minutes after He had
told them "Immediately after the tribulation of those days."
(Matt.24:29). That's when "one will be taken and and the other
left" Not seven years before!   Put it in context!

2   The 'Noah' analogy_Many analogies are used by the Pre-
Trib Rapture teachers, for lack of scriptural proof. However,
Noah is their main one, so I will deal with this one. Everyone is
aware of the fact that Noah warned the people that a flood is
coming and to repent, but _they refused to listen. The Pre-
Trib Rapture teachers say "that's like the rapture", so as Noah
was saved out of the flood, we are going to be "raptured" out
of the Tribulation. It's an analogy!!__An assumption!!

Did the flood come upon Noah, as well as the rest of the world
unawares? Let's read Gen.7:1 and Gen.7:4 and see. "And the Lord
said unto Noah...For in seven days, I will cause it to rain upon
the earth..." OK, so it does appear that Noah knew ahead of time
when the flood was going to come....

...It was the world that did not know. Very important to notice
that Noah knew seven days before the exact day the flood would
start. And we will know seven years after the signing of the
covenant of Daniel 9:27, the Lord Jesus Christ will return.

Just for fun:
The "Post"-Trib 'Noah' analogy_We, the Post-Tribulation
Rapture teachers, are warning you that a flood is coming (the
Tribulation) , but you refuse to listen, just like in the days
of Noah. But Instead of a flood of water, it's a flood of Satanic
deception that started with a small wave in 1830 with the new
pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. Now this wave of deception has
covered the entire western world and has blinded us to the huge
wave that may soon be upon us.

3   Mark 13:32, is also used_ "But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man..."_Jesus told them this a few minutes after
telling them in Mark 13:24 "..in those days after that tribulation,
the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her
light..." And goes on to say in Mark 13:28-29 that we will know
this day is close because next He says in Mark 13:30....that the
generation that sees these things (the tribulation events), would
(back to Mark 13:26-27) "...see the Son of man coming in the
clouds.....to gather His elect from the...uttermost parts of the
earth..." Paul states in 1st Thes.5:4, "we are not in darkness
that this day will come upon us as a thief." Why? Because in
the next verse (1st Thes.5:5), "we are children of the light..."
However, right now no one knows, but when the covenant of
Daniel 9:27 is signed, we will know to within a few weeks.

Some people ask me, "why is it that the vast majority of
Christians believe in the pre-trib?"_When Jesus came to the
earth the first time, the vast majority of the religious people
(the church) of that time, rejected him, even after many Old
Testament prophets foretold of this event. But they did not want
a suffering Messiah, they wanted a conquering king. In this
case the vast majority was wrong!! Now, today, we want the
Messiah to take us out before a certain event, not after!! But,
guess what, we don't get to choose. He comes to the earth two
times (Heb 9:28). Once as a suffering Messiah, and then a second
time as a conquering KING at the Second Coming of Christ.

Millions are being deceived and mislead by well-meaning pastors
and teachers. We soon may be entering the last seven years of this
age, the 70th week of Daniel. We will not be 'in the balcony of
heaven' (as these teachers would have us believe) but we need
not fear, God is with us. Jesus said: "I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt 16:18).

No mater what view we hold, we still need to accept each other
as Christians. Those of us that hold to the post-tribulation rapture
view, should not be thought of as troublemakers, we are only con-
cerned that millions may fall during this time, a time when we (the
church) can be used by God. "....The people that do know their
God shall be strong, and do exploits. "..they that understand
among the people shall instruct many..." (Dan.11:32-33).

                                                  *******

Post Script.....

Important to read a list of  30 brief, one paragraph quotes from
the  Early Church Fathers such as:   Barnabas, Justin Martyr,
Augustine, John Fox., etc. They all taught that the church will
be on earth to face the wrath of the Antichrist in the last 3 1/2yrs.

                                              Links:

Early Church Fathers            Eternal Security  Fact or Fiction
Endtime Beast Empire            Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

________________________________________________

Listed below is the web page of a dear Christian lady who
updates her web page every few weeks on different topics.
The Rapture Force    (post-trib)


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The Second Coming of Christ

Endtimes Conference Proves Post-Trib Rapture